that's more money than the fbi, the dea, and the atf combined. if you look at the numbers of immigration, last year there was a negative -- negative immigration flow between the united states and mexico. so i think that's going to be a key sticking point. a lot of immigration advocates believe that this could be a pitfall for republicans to continue to say, oh, the border's not secure yet. the border's not secure yet. and that pathway to citizenship will actually never be a reality. so that is -- that is a big problem. >> i remember the arguments during 2012. some lawmakers wanted to put a fence, you know, around the entire country, right? that wasn't possible. others want more armed security along the border. and we have that now. what's the answer? >> well, what they've done in this new -- with this proposal, this bipartisan agreement, is they've formed a commission of border state governors. a commission that would certify that the border is secure. i think there's logic to that. carol, you know, the people on the ground are the ones that best